Part 1: Eternal life is for the righteous only
Eternal life is a gift that God gives only to the righteous according to the Bible. The wicked will be destroyed to their final death. The belief in the immortality of the soul was inspired by pagan belief systems and not scripture.
Somehow the ultimate reward has been rendered into an item at JJ’s giveaway. God is JJ in this example. He is giving eternal life to all according to the classic go to heaven or hell and keep living at death scenario. You can’t turn God’s promise to the righteous into an automatic precondition of all men.
We are not born immortal.
We are all quite mortal.
Mortal man can only strive to become changed into an immortal being through God’s future promise.
The punishment of death
Death was set down as the punishment for sin in Genesis 2:17. God spake of what would happen to Adam if he ate of the tree. He said “For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Satan was the one who questioned this in 3:4.
God told Adam that he would die. He didn’t say some insignificant piece of Adam would die and release the true Adam to somewhere or something else. Those who believe in man’s preexisting immortality believe in there being two parts of everyone.
Man is really an immortal soul or spiritual body residing in flesh according to this. This fleshly body is seen as just a shell or material covering for who someone really is. My first argument to this is what kind of punishment would this have been? God creates Adam to be immortal from his inception and then threatens to kill him knowing that he can’t.
Was he threatening Adam’s meaningless shell which just inhibits us from reaching paradise? What a threat. Don’t break my rule or I will release you into a better state. Our punishment for crimes in the United States should be to send people to Hawaii and make sure they are never burdened or troubled again. This would surely stop people from doing what we don’t want them to.
The point is that God threatened to take away the most amazing gift he gave Adam: his very life.
This has a real and concrete meaning.
He told Adam he would die. Was he bluffing? Is there another Adam that gets to keep right on living that God forgot about? The punishment is death but, errrrrrr, you just keep on afterward in another form. What kind of empty threat would this be?
The only way this could be a real consequence is if death was a real thing for Adam. Satan said “Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods.” This sounds like what most modern day Christians say at a friend’s death. They did not die, they were just released in their spiritual form which is immortal like God.
Whatever your explanation and spin: God said that Adam would surely die. If you say he didn’t for any reason or in any way this puts you in league with Satan’s side. It also puts you at odds with God. To say that Adam retained a state of conscious thought and lived at a higher level is not death. It certainly isn’t a punishment. It just doesn’t fit given the whole context of the situation. Punishment is something you don’t want. If it is easily explained away or gotten out of it is meaningless. This whole story would be kind of laughable if death isn’t real.
The last thing to note from this story is that a day to God is as a thousand years. I get this from 2nd Peter 3:8. Adam died at 930 so God lived up to his end.
How does this relate to the rest of mankind?
The 5th chapter of Romans is very instructive as to the foundations of life and death as a future reward or punishment. Verse 12 reads “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” Verse 14 further identifies this as Adam. His act of transgression ushered in the definable punishment of death for sin to all of mankind.
Adam’s sin and subsequent death embodied the curse of man. Verse 14 calls him “the figure of Him That was to come.” Verse 15 identifies this as Christ. He was also a key figure of God’s judgment on mankind. He was Adam’s opposite number in the grand scheme of things. His sinless death was a suitable substitute for the sins of others. He was perfect and unworthy of death. This is what makes us worthy of life.
(17-19 For if by one man’s offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous.)
Let’s first clear up that this must be speaking of a future judgment. Everyone who has ever lived one second had life. All who have ever lived have also died. This is the truth for all the wicked and righteous. Was it a specific reward for wickedness that the wicked got to live for a while? Wouldn’t the righteous be jipped if this were just speaking of the first death? All have to die.
Notice the clear pattern in all three verses. Each starts with the results of Adam’s sin. Each ends with the opposite effect of Christ’s action.
If you add the three up (results of 17-19 from Adam) you have death reigning because of judgment to condemnation and being made a sinner. Christ’s side is to reign in life through justification and being made righteous. If God judges you a sinner: you are worthy of death. If you find justification to righteousness through Christ: you are worthy of life. Note “the gift of righteousness shall reign in life,” and “justification of life.”
This chapter is a perfect foundation to this subject. It gets into the basis and lineage of death to the wicked and life to the righteous. It gives you the starting point for each in the plan of God. It is an in depth explanation of what I am out to prove.
Verse 21 says “That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.” Do you get eternal life if you are seen in your sin? Eternal life is only granted through righteousness in Christ.
The words righteous and wicked are at the opposite ends of the spectrum as are death and life. Both these bookends are complete and opposite.
Death-----------------------------------------Life
Wicked--------------------------------Righteous
Death to the wicked and life to the righteous: this is the scale God uses. There is no in between game where both get life but under different circumstances. It is perfect and absolute. I don’t see what else you could get from this whole chapter. Please find me a chapter that establishes that the wicked live forever and must be tortured. I have a sure foundation for my belief system.
More scriptures which establish death as the punishment for the wicked:
(Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.)
(2nd Corinthians 2:15, 16 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: to the one we are a savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life.--)
Note that to die or to perish is what Christ saves you from. You have the two opposites here. There are “them that are saved,” and “them that perish.” Having Christ is the difference between life and death.
(James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.)
See the chain of cause and effect within this verse. Lust-sin-death: Death is the end result of sin. We must stick to the chain of reason and event given in scripture.
(James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.)
Covering one’s sins will indeed save them from death. Pay particularly prudent attention to the wording in play here. It says “shall save a soul from death.” The soul of the sinner is not immortal. They need be saved from death.
(1st John 3:14, 15 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.)
Both those who love and those who hate live for the time being. This must be speaking from the prism of a future perspective. As mortals we have a very small lifespan compared to eternity. Calculus teaches that when you compare any number to infinity; it is changed to zero. You can place a number so huge beneath it that you see the finite number is irrelevant.
The only thing that matters is what you will be for eternity. Those who are righteous will live for all eternity. Those who face the second death of the damned will never live again for all eternity.
This is how you can be seen in death while you are very much alive right at that moment. We can see this with our limited perspective of time. When someone proceeds to the electric chair they can be labeled “dead man walking.” At that second they are alive but are only heading to certain death.
Please also note the last part of this quote which reads “no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” I thought everyone had an immortal soul within them. This sure doesn’t sound like the case here. Was John wrong?
A synonym for death (perish) is also used several times to describe the punishment of the wicked.
(Luke 13:3 and 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all like wise perish.)
(1st Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.)
(2nd Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.)
Note in the last two quotes that perishing or dying is what the righteous are saved from.
These verses reveal that the wicked will be destroyed. To be destroyed means to be torn down, demolished, abolished, annihilated, or killed.
(Proverbs 10:29, 30 The way of the Lord is strength to the upright: But destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity. The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.)
Wouldn’t the second sentence be out of place given all the righteous flying away from the earth to heaven right at their death? Is heaven where the righteous will go? It sounds like the earth is the final reward to me. The wicked have been here and will be here until the final judgment. Then they will be destroyed.
(Proverbs 21:15 It is joy to the just to do judgment: But destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.)
(Matthew 7:13, 14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.)
One path leads to life. The other leads to destruction. According to immortality of the soul: all paths lead to life. They just differentiate between eternal bliss and eternal suffering. What does Christ say here? These are two opposite paths with two opposite endpoints.
(Philippians 3:18, 19 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is there belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
(2nd Thessalonians 1:8, 9 In flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power)
To get someone out of your presence, you would either have to move them or destroy them. Torturing them would leave them there in agony. Destroying them forever permanently gets rid of them. It doesn’t say he moves them elsewhere to be in pain. It says they are destroyed from his presence.
(2nd Peter 2:1 ---who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord That bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.)
In accordance with the word destruction; the wicked are promised to be consumed and cut off. In the future they shall not be.
(Psalms 37:9, 10 For evildoers shall be cut off: But those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: Yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.)
(Psalms 37:20, 22 But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.---And they that be cursed of Him shall be cut off.)
(Psalms 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more.)
What does the Bible mean to you? Will you form your belief on God’s punishment to the wicked from it? Or will you listen to what a bunch of people are saying: then tailor verses and words to fit that? The immortality of the soul is a pagan construct. The wicked living in eternal agony is not in the Bible.
God’s punishment to the wicked will be destruction unto death. I don’t see how the scriptures could have made this more clear. If you want to make up your own punishment: don’t bother with God’s word on the subject.
Still, believers in the immortality of the soul will transform words like death and destruction into something they never have been or ever will be. You know you are in trouble in supporting your position when you have to radically redefine words. This word was just a code for that because that is what I believe and it couldn’t mean what it says. Let’s create our own immortality of the soul word decoder. Maybe we can get it in cereal boxes or something.
Death=pain, token end of life, going to hell, flying away, repenting, purgatory, Dante’s inferno, or whatever else you can think of (just not an end of life).
Destruction=discomfort, torture, going across the river with the skeletal ferry man (just not being destroyed).
Perish=being kept alive to be sadistically tortured past a point when even Saddam Insane or Hitler would think you had enough. Dying would be the exact opposite even though this idea is the opposite of the real definition which we will ignore.
Consume=staying there, burning but not coming apart in any way, make up your own story, fill in the blanks.
By using these ever convenient definitions I can almost make the Bible say the wicked will be alive forever to be in pain. The problem is that the Bible never does pronounce this on the wicked. I’m sure God could have used the right words to convey these ideas. The whole thing reminds me of those who like to rewrite history to make their point.
Along with redefinition of words, there is the ever crafty ‘other you’ argument. ‘You’ don’t really die. ‘You’ don’t have to do what the Bible says you will. There is ‘another you’ that falls outside God’s plan which he either didn’t know about or ignored with all these scriptures. We can then make up our own path for this ‘other you’ which is inconsistent with scripture.
Of course I am speaking of the immortal soul living in a fleshly cage or shell. This is who you really are according to this way of thinking. This version of you can’t die.
With this definition God’s punishment of death and destruction are completely immaterial and irrelevant. Don’t you think God would know this? Why bother with all the verses about it if that isn’t really you getting destroyed or dying? I can see God trying to render a promised punishment only to be thwarted each time by the fact that the one he is trying to punish is actually immortal.
Just as ridiculous as redefining the punishment is to make it of no effect. People treat their body like it is a cheap suit to be discarded. Is God’s punishment to kill the shell while people just automatically escape in the spirit?
This would be like threatening to destroy someone’s discarded clothes for their wrong doing. If you don’t respect God he will consume your meaningless shell. That sure ought to get someone’s attention. God ain’t playing around. Death to all fleshly clothes in effigy.
God may as well destroy a scarecrow, a voodoo doll, or crush a peanut shell and make the wicked watch. Or maybe he should give the wicked a haircut and consume the dead hair in fire. The whole thing reminds me of the movie “The silence of the Lambs” when Anthony Hopkins took the flesh of a guard’s face and wore it as a mask. As punishment to Hopkins they should have consumed the mask. Of course the mask wasn’t him but this is the whole point.
Maybe the wicked aren’t really the wicked. When God pronounces death and destruction on them, people say that isn’t really them. Why not say the same for God pronouncing them wicked. That wasn’t really them either but just their body.
This or just create a third body to evade the hell they believe in. You could look at this belief like layers of skin. You have the flesh, the soul just underneath, and a spiritual body as who you are.
The flesh takes God’s punishment of death and destruction. The soul takes on the made up eternal suffering (from nowhere in scripture). This leaves the spiritual body to escape that as well. Let’s just create as many bodies as necessary to get out of what we don’t like. God won’t be able to keep up. He still thinks he can kill the wicked.
Completely consistent with my belief is what Christ did for us. He died for us.
(Romans 5:6-8 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.)
(Romans 14:15 ---Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.)
(1st Corinthians 8:11 ---shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died.)
(1st Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures)
(2nd Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if One died for all, then were all dead)
Can you see how being alive or dead is again a future destination? Without Christ, all would be headed toward death. Christ took this punishment for us. This is the only way out. You can’t just make up another you out of thin air to get out of this.
(Colossians 1:21, 22 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled. In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight)
(Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, Who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour, that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.)
The problem with making death of no effect is making Christ’s death of no effect. He died for our sins. This was a great and perfect sacrifice. If death isn’t the real punishment for sins it was a meaningless show.
If we don’t really die and burning is the real punishment: why did Christ die and why didn’t he burn? The fact that Christ died for our sins is a key point in the gospel. It is important because he was the substitute for all of us. If he didn’t take the “real” punishment then will we still have to burn?
I don’t doubt that Christ suffered pain just before his death. However, the whole emphasis of the gospel is on his death, burial, and resurrection. This is what the apostles were sure to talk about when relaying the gospel story in Acts.
I am also sure that the wicked will suffer pain in the fire just prior to their death. But again the emphasis is on their death as the main punishment. This is consistent with Christ. Death as the punishment for sin is what gives Christ’s sacrifice meaning.
What does death on the cross have anything to do with eternal fire torture? Why wasn’t Christ burned at the stake? His death was what was important.
The reward of life
(Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for My sake shall find it.)
(Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.)
Obviously the states of life and death are future endpoints based on decisions in this life. To lose one’s life in the long run is the final and second death. To find it in the long run is eternal life.
(Matthew 19:16, 17 And, behold, one came and said unto Him, “Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” And He said unto him “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but One, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”)
The clear premise of this question is that this person doesn’t already have eternal life. They are wondering how to obtain it. It says “what good thing shall I do that I may have” which is future tense and conditional.
In answering the question Christ first draws a clear separation betwixt himself and God (I get to the falsehood of trinity in another paper). He then explains that this person should keep the commandments to enter into life. How do you enter into a place where you already are?
If the asker already automatically had eternal life from birth; why didn’t Jesus say so? It would have been a great time to explain that. If everyone was born with an immortal soul; they would have eternal life whether they kept commandments or not. His answer was to place conditions on finding eternal life.
Say someone asked a dietician what they must eat to have a heart, lungs, a brain, and blood and be able to breathe oxygen. Any living person falls into this description no matter what they eat. The only way to answer this question honestly is to first answer the false premise that they wouldn’t have any of these things based on diet. Wouldn’t you severely question this person’s knowledge and credibility if they actually started naming foods to be able to breathe oxygen? You just can’t answer a question like this on its face.
Christ was always very sharp in the way he answered questions. A question was asked under a false pretense in Matthew 22:24-28. Sadducees told Christ of a woman who had married seven brothers. After each one died she married another until each one was dead. They then asked which one would be her husband in the resurrection. Christ immediately scolded them and explained that there is no marriage in the resurrection. He didn’t fumble about and try to answer the question given their misunderstanding, which would have only served to reinforce their false belief.
(Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.)
Why forsake anything if you are born with everlasting life? Also, do those who don’t forsake also get an hundredfold? If you give them one part of the promise here why not give them the other as well?
(Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.)
The second death will be an irreversible and everlasting punishment as in 2nd Thessalonians 1:8. If you want to make it everlasting torment then this would have been a great time to bring up eternal suffering versus eternal bliss. These are the two logical endpoints given the immortality of the soul in Christianity. Instead, eternal life is only given to the righteous.
A clear separation is made between what the righteous get and what the wicked get. It is highlighted with the word “but.” Say you are talking about what two different groups will receive. You say that group one will get this, ‘but’ group two will get something else. You can’t then go back and say group one will also get it because of the word ‘but.’ It has to show difference in what the two groups are receiving. It said “but the righteous into life eternal.”
(John 3:15, 16 That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.)
(John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.)
This has to be speaking of a future judgment. Those without Christ do see life for now. The wrath of God is what will eventually take this life away.
(John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.)
(John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal--)
(John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.)
This again puts these sayings of Christ into a future timeframe. Someone who is walking around knowing nothing of Christ is very alive in the moment. They can only pass “from death to life” in terms of future judgment. It would be great folly to look at these verses in terms of a present tense life or death.
This is why I see 3:15, 16 above as a futuristic statement. The righteous will not have to perish in a future judgment. Hebrews 9:27 says “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.” The wicked get to live and everyone must die.
Note the phrase “once to die.” Everyone has to die once but not twice. The wicked will die the permanent second death. The righteous will be granted eternal life in the future and escape this punishment.
(John 5:39, 40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me. And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life.)
(John 6:27, 33 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the son of man shall give unto you----For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.)
Food and water (as in 4:14) sustain life for the time being. The obvious image here is that Christ is as spiritual food and water unto everlasting life. As in communion where you symbolically partake of his blood and broken body.
You eventually die without food and water. You will also eventually die without faith in Christ. This is the obvious picture here (it isn’t promoting cannibalism or something). Verse 33 refers back to God giving Israel manna to sustain there life in the wilderness. God gave Christ to the world for a chance to sustain eternal life. It is up to the individual to partake to their own salvation.
Saying you get eternal life without the grace of the gospel of Christ is like saying you will live without food and water. Both are examples of a life giving necessity. You can’t cheat the rules on one any more than the other. They are absolutes which can’t be ignored or discarded.
It says “and giveth life unto the world.” Exactly how do you give someone something they already have? I give the person reading this at this moment life. You are alive I say.
(John 6:40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.)
Notice the obvious precondition for eternal life here. Christ clearly states that they which believe on the son will get eternal life. Also note from this verse when people are raised to eternal life. It is on a specific day. If they all had eternal life from birth, what are they raised from? Why believe on the son to get everlasting life?
(John 6:47, 48 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life.)
(John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.)
Note the word “if.” Say I tell you that if you pay me, I will give you my car. Is it safe to assume it is yours if you don’t pay?
The word if is clearly used to show a precondition to eternal life. If not, you don’t have it. According to the popular belief: it may as well have said ‘if any man eat of the bread, he shall live forever and if he doesn’t eat he will also live forever.’ This would leave the sentence completely meaningless. It would provide no motive to partake of Christ.
(John 6:53, 54 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.)
If you don’t like “if”: how about “except” to set up conditional eternal life? How in the world could Christ believe that everyone has it by saying this? He tells them they have no life in them saving for accepting him. You won’t get this except doesn’t mean you will get it without. How simple is this?
(John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, “I am the light of the world: he that followeth Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”)
Only through the knowledge and guidance of Christ can anyone achieve life. This is what the light is ultimately pointing to. Those without the light cannot find it.
(John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.)
(John 17:2 As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given Him.)
Every good Christian will quickly tell you they believe in Jesus. Do you believe in what he said? Think back to how you started believing in the immortality of the soul. Was it through careful examination of Christ’s words or did someone else tell you first? Was the Bible just a way to verify a preconceived notion?
Where in the world from Christ’s words do you get that all have eternal life? Where do you get that all have it but accepting him will just make it more pleasant? It is clearly a gift he gives to those who follow the word. Take his message for what it is and not what you want to make it.
How many more ways did Christ need to make this point? Are these verses not enough? If not, here are some more.
(John 20:31 But these are written , that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name.)
(Acts 13:46, 48 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles-----.” And when the gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.)
The Jews Paul spoke to were unworthy of what? Obviously you have to be worthy to gain eternal life and not just born human. This promise is only obtained through the word of God. In this case it was given to those of the gentiles who were ordained and believed. According to immortality of the soul: I ordain you to have what every one in the history of the entire world has.
(Romans 2:6-8 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath.)
Like glory and honor, immortality is something to strive for. Eternal life will be given to those who seek these things. It is a reward and not a precondition for all. If you are going to say the second group also gets it in this quote: why not say the first group gets indignation and wrath for their righteousness? Why not just do a complete judgment swap?
Verses 9 and 10 read “Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.”
You should just rewrite it ‘glory, honor, and peace to every man that worketh good and to every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile.’ As long as you give the reward of life to everyone: why stop there. The wicked should get glory, honor, and peace as well.
(Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.)
(Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.)
(Romans 11:14, 15 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if he casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead?)
To Paul salvation was a matter of life versus death. It wasn’t eternal bliss in heaven versus eternal pain and suffering in hell. Why does it never say something along these lines? Why not ‘save them to heaven from hell’ or anything like this? It is always about life and death as the two endpoints of judgment.
(Galatians 3:21 -----for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.)
righteousness=life
(Ephesians 2:1 And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;)
(Philippians 2:16 Holding for the word of life------)
(Philippians 4:3 And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.)
Book of what? If everyone has eternal life; are all in the book? What kind of reward would this be? Sounds like being in the exclusive book of those who breathe oxygen if you believe in the immortality of the soul. That or being in the ever exclusive phone book.
(1st Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life everlasting.)
(1st Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.)
(1st Timothy 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.)
It says “that they may lay hold on eternal life.” Does this sound at all like already having it from birth? So they “may lay hold” on something they already have????? It is a hope described as something to strive toward in the future tense. It is something you must achieve by following God’s word. It isn’t a freebie.
(2nd Timothy 1:1 ---according to the promise of life which in Jesus Christ)
Believing in Christ is what gets you life.
(2nd Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, Who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel)
The only way to get out of death and find immortality is through the gospel of Christ.
(Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.)
(James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him.)
Crown of what? Did he promise it to all or “them that love him?”
(1st John 2:24, 25 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.)
(1st John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.)
Did the second line read ‘he that hath the son hath life and he that hath not the son also hath life?’ Immortality of the soul makes 1st John 5:11-13 totally meaningless. I know it is fun to just say that all have immortality. But you don’t get eternal life unless you meet certain conditions in the eyes of God. All these verses show this over and over and over. But I know, I know, there is some secret other way to get it. This even when it says “hath not life.”
(1st John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him That is true, and we are in Him That is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.)
(Jude 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.)
It is hard for me to understand how anyone can read the above verses and not concede that eternal life is conditional.
Conditions like:
Losing your life at present
Keeping the commandments
Forsaking houses
Forsaking family
Forsaking land
Being righteous
Believing in the son
Spiritual partaking of water or meat
Partaking Christ’s flesh and blood
Gathering fruit unto life eternal
Following the guiding light of Christ
Hating your present life
Having life given to you by Christ
Believe that Jesus is Christ
Being worthy or ordained
Patient continuance in well doing
Seeking for glory, honor, and immortality
Being a servant to God
Having fruit of holiness
Being made free from sin and death
Those of Israel being received into the church
Being seen in righteousness
Being quickened
Holding forth the word of life
Being in the book of life
Fighting the good fight of faith and laying hold on life
Laying a good foundation against the time to come
Believing in the promise of God
Believing the gospel
Being justified by grace
Receiving the crown of life
Remaining in what you heard from the beginning
Knowing him that is true
Finding mercy
I pulled all these conditions from the verses above and you want to say eternal life isn’t conditional? It is quite a list of sacrifices, faith, works, and endurance to obtain something everyone is supposedly born with. I know, I know, I forgot the secret word decoder.
Eternal life= bliss, going to heaven, flying away to God, being with Christ instead of Satan for eternity (everything except what everyone knows the definition of eternal life really is)
The clear and only implication of the many verses above is that eternal life is a reward God gives to the righteous. If you want to say everyone gets it: why not just say everyone gets the kingdom as well? Everyone should get everything God promises only to those who follow his instructions. This way God’s instructions are of no real effect to anyone. Just do what you wish and some other version of you, never hinted at in scripture, reaps the reward of the righteous.
To counteract the Bible, believers in the immortality of the soul create some alternate version of people to which none of these verses apply. However you want to define what your body is, who and what you are, you will not have eternal life unless you are one of God’s elect. To imply otherwise in any way, shape, or form is to go against all the above verses.
You could believe there are ten kinds of bodies within you but none will live forever unless God grants it. Your bottom line is still that the wicked get eternal life. You just attach some long mystical story to it. Does this story change all the proof I just showed that only the righteous get life?
You could craft a story of how the wicked are reincarnated as an immortal space alien. This alien then gets to be with God and Christ in the kingdom. You could go into some metaphysical explanation of how the new alien body was another form of the wicked person. You could speak on how their flesh dies but they don’t.
Then you could explain how they got what was promised to the righteous in this special other form. I would say that if said alien was that wicked person in another form; they still wouldn’t get everlasting life, glory, the kingdom, or honor. They would still get only what is promised to the wicked: death.
They will get what is promised to the wicked no matter what form you claim they are. They are still that unrighteous individual in the end. There is no story you can weave where the wicked will get what is exclusively given to the righteous. Saying well, they get it because they are really something else proves nothing to me.
They could shape change, grow, shrink, evaporate, freeze solid, or go through a butterfly like metamorphosis: but they still don’t get it. If the wicked get eternal life in any form, state, or destination: they get eternal life. The Bible says they don’t get it. No story can undo this.
Say the wicked did turn into an immortal space alien at death. Say they flew around the universe in a spacecraft. Could you then say Uncle Bob never left the state of Kentucky after his death? If he really is the alien; he left the entire earth, much less Kentucky. This is basic deduction. Could you say he doesn’t have eternal life? He’s flying all around doing things so no.
Don’t spin me the wicked don’t get eternal life your way because it is in another form. If the other form is them; they got it. If it isn’t them; they didn’t get it: someone else did. It all reminds me of when Trinitarians say Christ was God and was tempted but God wasn’t tempted. If any part or version of you gets eternal life: you get it.
Even if part of you dies, if some unseen part of you gets to live forever then you have eternal life. If your legs get cut off and shrivel and I give you a million dollars, you still got a million dollars and are still alive. Don’t pretend like God’s word is thwarted with some strange explanation. He knows what the wicked are and said they would die. He didn’t say part of them would die.
You can’t just make up another you and make up a new system of reward and punishment which is completely outside scripture. This is exactly what many have done. I guess God wasn’t talking to the ‘real Adam’ when he said “thou shalt surely die.” I guess he was just threatening Adam’s fleshly imposter shell. Maybe he was speaking of Adam’s alien copy. I guess he isn’t talking to the wicked when he promises death to them and life only to the righteous.
By this logic that the real Adam wasn’t really punished with death: it wasn’t the real Adam that sinned either. Adam could say the fleshly stomach that got fed by the tree wasn’t him. This whole story was about some physical shell living, sinning, and dying while Adam lived regardless in some separate reality. It never speaks of Adam living after this or going anywhere else in any form. God’s punishment is real and not to be so easily disregarded and discarded by pagan fiction. Death to the wicked means death to the wicked!
Automatic eternal life makes all the verses I have quoted so meaningless they would be laughable and obsolete. If these verses are such a vain and meaningless formality: why are there so many of them? Eternal life is the main thing promised to the righteous: both in number of occurrences and importance. The world turns this precious promise into government cheese; where everyone gets it through some spiritualized backdoor they have invented; which is never even hinted at in scripture in relation to immortality.
With many of their own words and concepts: most modern Christians talk around God’s sure promise to the wicked and the righteous. They undo the concepts of life and death by radically redefining these easy to understand words. They act as though God’s punishment and reward are not real and not really aimed at anyone. They do this via an invented second body to which the Bible doesn’t apply.
Who in the world was God talking to in all these verses? Who ever dies or could be motivated by achieving eternal life if I am wrong on this? What would be the point of any of these verses? Can you just claim eternal life and expect to get it from God if you aren’t righteous? If eternal life isn’t conditional in many verses above: what in the world does conditional mean and how else could it have been made crystal clear? Did it need say you really, really, really don’t get eternal life unless righteous and life really, really, really means life?